Newsfiend
06-21-2012, 09:50 AM
Grringo wrote:
I think an explanation on the intent of archery and quiver minimum delay tweak would be helpful. I haven't thoroughly tested, but it seemed clear what had been changed early on.
The only change I have noticed is that there now seems to be a floor on seconds per shot that comes in to play way too easily. This floor is set at the exact point where quiver haste is negated on live servers. So on test, quiver haste is prevented from being negated only by placing an additional restriction. In effect I see no improvement, only a nerf on bows faster than 22 delay. Bow of the Destroyer now fires up to 25% slower.
I only had limited equipment combinations and time to parse so far but it appears now that bow, haste and quiver combinations can now fire no faster than 1.2 seconds per shot.
The green numbers below are the expected calculated shot rate, the red numbers are observed rates.
1) 225% haste, 25 delay, Prescient Fleeting Quiver (90 weight reduction) (1.06 sec/shot) 920s/767=1.20 sec/shot
2) 225% haste, 25 delay, Jeweled Quiver (35 weight reduction) (1.21 sec/shot), 413s/342 att=1.21 sec/shot
3) 225% haste, 23 delay, Prescient Fleeting Quiver (90 weight reduction) (0.99 sec/shot) 420s/350=1.20 sec/shot
4) 225% haste, 25 delay, Quiver of Marr (50 weight reduction) (1.17sec/shot) 424s/353=1.20 sec/shot
5) 225% haste, 23 delay, Quiver of Marr (50 weight reduction) (1.09 sec/shot) 426s/355=1.20 sec/shot
6) 225% haste, 25 delay, Tailored Quiver (22 weight reduction) (1.25 sec/shot) 597s/479=1.25 sec/shot
7) 225% haste, 17 delay, Prescient Fleeting Quiver (90 weight reduction) (0.785 sec/shot) 651s/544=1.20 sec/shot
From previous parsing the seconds per shot can be calculated by:
Delay/Haste * (1-weight reduction/400) + 0.2
where (1-weight reduction/400) is quiver haste and 0.2 is /autofire delay. Previously, if this formula would result in an answer < 1.2 then the quiver haste portion was negated.
The same formula applies, but rather than negating the quiver haste portion, the shot rate is floored at 1.2 seconds/shot. This system is not functional. All bows between 17 and 25 delay now fire at exactly the same rate(with 225% haste), the slower bows just do more damage. The damage/delay ratios that tier upgrades are based upon are irrelevant between bows of different delays.
1.2 seconds per shot is the current rate we fire at with 225% haste with a 25 delay bow and a 39 weight reduction Prescient Fleeting Quiver. So although the Prescient Fleeting Quiver is now 90 weight reduction on test, in actuality this change has zero impact. There is no difference between any of the quivers with weight reductions between 39 and 90.
Unless bow delays are changed to a minimum delay of 30 the 1.2 second floor is going to be hit and cause itemization problems. At 30 delay and above the bows should scale properly and the damage/delay ratio that dps capability is based upon will once again be relevant.
The 17 delay Bow of the Destroyer should fire at 0.79 seconds per shot with 225% haste and a 90 weight reduction quiver. 23 delay bows(which are the fastest from recent expansions) should fire at a rate of 0.99 seconds per shot. Can you set this new cap down to 0.78 seconds or 0.98 seconds rather than 1.2 seconds? Is there really any reason it needs to be restricted at all?
Can we change the minimum delay of bows, or lower/eliminate the shots per second floor?
Edited to correct for Delbaeth's(thanks) comment below; all of my parses should show seconds per shot.
It looks like the most recent changes to quiver haste didn't make it to test. The minimum delay floor was lowered to .9 seconds for archery. The only bow that should hit the minimum delay floor is the Bow of the Destroyer. Everything else will receive the maximum haste benefit. I don't know if there will be another test patch with the updated changes.
More... (http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/posts/list.m?topic_id=187236&post_id=2816929#2816929)
I think an explanation on the intent of archery and quiver minimum delay tweak would be helpful. I haven't thoroughly tested, but it seemed clear what had been changed early on.
The only change I have noticed is that there now seems to be a floor on seconds per shot that comes in to play way too easily. This floor is set at the exact point where quiver haste is negated on live servers. So on test, quiver haste is prevented from being negated only by placing an additional restriction. In effect I see no improvement, only a nerf on bows faster than 22 delay. Bow of the Destroyer now fires up to 25% slower.
I only had limited equipment combinations and time to parse so far but it appears now that bow, haste and quiver combinations can now fire no faster than 1.2 seconds per shot.
The green numbers below are the expected calculated shot rate, the red numbers are observed rates.
1) 225% haste, 25 delay, Prescient Fleeting Quiver (90 weight reduction) (1.06 sec/shot) 920s/767=1.20 sec/shot
2) 225% haste, 25 delay, Jeweled Quiver (35 weight reduction) (1.21 sec/shot), 413s/342 att=1.21 sec/shot
3) 225% haste, 23 delay, Prescient Fleeting Quiver (90 weight reduction) (0.99 sec/shot) 420s/350=1.20 sec/shot
4) 225% haste, 25 delay, Quiver of Marr (50 weight reduction) (1.17sec/shot) 424s/353=1.20 sec/shot
5) 225% haste, 23 delay, Quiver of Marr (50 weight reduction) (1.09 sec/shot) 426s/355=1.20 sec/shot
6) 225% haste, 25 delay, Tailored Quiver (22 weight reduction) (1.25 sec/shot) 597s/479=1.25 sec/shot
7) 225% haste, 17 delay, Prescient Fleeting Quiver (90 weight reduction) (0.785 sec/shot) 651s/544=1.20 sec/shot
From previous parsing the seconds per shot can be calculated by:
Delay/Haste * (1-weight reduction/400) + 0.2
where (1-weight reduction/400) is quiver haste and 0.2 is /autofire delay. Previously, if this formula would result in an answer < 1.2 then the quiver haste portion was negated.
The same formula applies, but rather than negating the quiver haste portion, the shot rate is floored at 1.2 seconds/shot. This system is not functional. All bows between 17 and 25 delay now fire at exactly the same rate(with 225% haste), the slower bows just do more damage. The damage/delay ratios that tier upgrades are based upon are irrelevant between bows of different delays.
1.2 seconds per shot is the current rate we fire at with 225% haste with a 25 delay bow and a 39 weight reduction Prescient Fleeting Quiver. So although the Prescient Fleeting Quiver is now 90 weight reduction on test, in actuality this change has zero impact. There is no difference between any of the quivers with weight reductions between 39 and 90.
Unless bow delays are changed to a minimum delay of 30 the 1.2 second floor is going to be hit and cause itemization problems. At 30 delay and above the bows should scale properly and the damage/delay ratio that dps capability is based upon will once again be relevant.
The 17 delay Bow of the Destroyer should fire at 0.79 seconds per shot with 225% haste and a 90 weight reduction quiver. 23 delay bows(which are the fastest from recent expansions) should fire at a rate of 0.99 seconds per shot. Can you set this new cap down to 0.78 seconds or 0.98 seconds rather than 1.2 seconds? Is there really any reason it needs to be restricted at all?
Can we change the minimum delay of bows, or lower/eliminate the shots per second floor?
Edited to correct for Delbaeth's(thanks) comment below; all of my parses should show seconds per shot.
It looks like the most recent changes to quiver haste didn't make it to test. The minimum delay floor was lowered to .9 seconds for archery. The only bow that should hit the minimum delay floor is the Bow of the Destroyer. Everything else will receive the maximum haste benefit. I don't know if there will be another test patch with the updated changes.
More... (http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/posts/list.m?topic_id=187236&post_id=2816929#2816929)