Newsfiend
09-01-2009, 08:22 AM
isaiah655 wrote:
Dev-Ngreth wrote:
isaiah655 wrote:
Dev-Ngreth wrote:
Tearsin_Rain wrote:
Dev-Ngreth wrote:
I have not been the items designer that long. I may not have listened much when other people were the items designer, that is very true.
okay, fine... fair enough.
for the record:
knights would totally dig having a 1hb or 1hp instead of yet another 1hs... and we want our class 2h weapons to be slow with big damage instead of fast with a high ratio - because basically anything under 34 or 35 delay is nearly impossible to thread... and we likes us our threading.
(for example, in SoD tower, the flashstriker's great mace is almost infinitely better for a knight weapon than the sk/pal only corrupted soul piercer... even triskixx the sweeper is a MUCH better weapon than the soul piercer for us)
And sorry. I misunderstood again (a bit of reading fail!) I thought we were talking about looks still.
I do try and keep the 2 handers "slow", in the 34-36 range. Especially the knight 2 handers. I am fairly certain none of them are faster than 34. I am fairly certain the Knight 1handers are slow as well, but not as positive there.
While I may make some 1hb knight weapons... (no promises) I am definitely looking at some axes instead of swords for Knights... so at least a bit of difference from usual. Still a slasher.
I have no plans for a knight 1hp. It just does not seem "knightly" to me. I agree with the 1HB. I prefer lances for Knight 2H as well, but can go with the others as well. If there is a good "lance" in a set of weapons I will always choose the lance.
Why does everything have to be in absolutes? Some people like to have all their weapon skills capped for the sake of doing it. I know, even as an Enchanter, I like to keep all my skills up. I would like to see level appropriate weapons for my class that covers all weapon skills I can have. 1HB, Piercing, 2HB and H2H (although that doesn't need a weapon). Yes, I'm an Enchanter. So, what? I like to keep my weapons skills capped. Just because. I'd love to have a 2HBlunt that I can bandolier and build up skills as I chase those slow-moving fleeing mobs. There is a sense of accomplishment in having maxed skills. That's why I have 300 in 8 tradeskills.
Instead of insisting that there will be no weapons for knights because you personally don't like the idea, why not simply let them cover all bases in weapon types, and make the ones you like more useful? If you don't like knights with 1HBlunts, or 2HBlunts or whatever, then simply don't make those weapons you like as useful or as desireable. Heck, even overlap them if you want. Make the ones you don't care to see in Knights' hands usable by more than one melee class and without the beneficial procs, focus, etc. No law says that 2HBlunts need to be class specific. In fact, there's not a single earthly reason that you can't create a 2HBlunt usable by as many classes that are permitted to use one. (I think that's all of them, but I'm not sure.) You can create something with appropriate stats, but use the best focus/procs on the weapons you think are best on Knights.
Besides, this is the what the customer base is telling you they want. That is the most important factor in any business. The biases of the employees are a distant last place.
check my wordings.
I said "plans" No-where were there absolutes.
And if people want them "just for the skill" then there are non-knight specific weapons knights can use to gain skill... they are less desirable for knights because they are too fast and low damage but they are there.
I'd rather have something that isn't a huge compromise in stats.
Dev-Ngreth wrote:
Too many weapons dilutes the drop tables, and starts to make more people angry.
Oh, I'm checking your words very carefully...and your argument is severely wanting. I'm actually amazed you let yourself get away with that statement.
Drops are not the only way to acquire weapons. You can create a myriad of weapons, enough to satisfy everyone's cravings for every weapon prototype for each class without diluting the drop tables. There are merchants that sell them with the plethora of alternate currencies that we now have in the game. (Perhaps you should consider recycling some of those currencies? Or is there a reason that Radiant Crystals should only be used on DoN merchants?)
There's also tradeskills...cultured items, for instance, could include various weapon prototypes.
And there is also questing for them. You could create weapons prototypes quests. I'd do them. What's so wrong with having a 2HBlunt, for instance, as the reward of a quest that every class that can use a 2HBlunt may do?
It doesn't even require thinking outside the box. It merely requires using precedent for the means to acquire weapons that have been used for years. "Diluting the drop tables?" Sorry, that's a cop-out. I just glibly rattled off three alternative solutions to creating suitable weapons prototypes without diluting the drop tables.
For that matter, you could even create weapons that result from a combination of these methods.
And finally, there is a precedent in place for making something that drops normally into something else more desireable. For instance, in SoF the Glossy Silk Wristwrap (which has Chromatic focus) was not a normal drop. So, to punish those uppity Enchanters who dare to think that their spells deserve focus the same as all other casters - pure, priest, Bard and hybrid - get, we had to buy, at no small expense, an item that would turn our Glossy Silk Wristband into the wristwrap, so we could have Chromatic focus. Some nerve those Enchanters have, daring to think that their Chromatic based spells should have focus! Ugh!
Kidding aside, there's no earthly reason you can't do the same to a weapon.
As for the complications of designing new weapons, the Merchants in TBS and in SoF collectively have the prototypes to accommodate the various classes. All you need do is pump up the stats to appropriate levels, put them on a new merchant and you're done.
You now have four alternatives to giving prototypes to the classes that want one, all without diluting the drop tables. Your move.
yes. But we don't want to get to the point where all you need to do is get one drop, over and over, and turn it into whatever item you want. And the ideas for that keep leading towards that. Yes, I am exaggerating... but it is the extreme of what is being suggested.
Yes Point merchants will sometimes solve that.
But it all is what the content leads towards.
The current content leads towards drops, not point merchants, and outside of visible armor, we do not want to keep more and more going towards getting a few items the leads to lots of other items. More and more that leads to content being consumed in a very short time. If you are guaranteed to get what you need for equipment in 22 kills... that leads to very quickly consumed content. Since this expansion leads to drops, we are balancing the variety with the availability of drop points. These drop points can be NPC, quests, missions, global loot.
Even the "universal" armor drops are a compromise to keep the drop tables from getting too dilute.
More... (http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/posts/list.m?topic_id=154749&post_id=2273698#2273698)
Dev-Ngreth wrote:
isaiah655 wrote:
Dev-Ngreth wrote:
Tearsin_Rain wrote:
Dev-Ngreth wrote:
I have not been the items designer that long. I may not have listened much when other people were the items designer, that is very true.
okay, fine... fair enough.
for the record:
knights would totally dig having a 1hb or 1hp instead of yet another 1hs... and we want our class 2h weapons to be slow with big damage instead of fast with a high ratio - because basically anything under 34 or 35 delay is nearly impossible to thread... and we likes us our threading.
(for example, in SoD tower, the flashstriker's great mace is almost infinitely better for a knight weapon than the sk/pal only corrupted soul piercer... even triskixx the sweeper is a MUCH better weapon than the soul piercer for us)
And sorry. I misunderstood again (a bit of reading fail!) I thought we were talking about looks still.
I do try and keep the 2 handers "slow", in the 34-36 range. Especially the knight 2 handers. I am fairly certain none of them are faster than 34. I am fairly certain the Knight 1handers are slow as well, but not as positive there.
While I may make some 1hb knight weapons... (no promises) I am definitely looking at some axes instead of swords for Knights... so at least a bit of difference from usual. Still a slasher.
I have no plans for a knight 1hp. It just does not seem "knightly" to me. I agree with the 1HB. I prefer lances for Knight 2H as well, but can go with the others as well. If there is a good "lance" in a set of weapons I will always choose the lance.
Why does everything have to be in absolutes? Some people like to have all their weapon skills capped for the sake of doing it. I know, even as an Enchanter, I like to keep all my skills up. I would like to see level appropriate weapons for my class that covers all weapon skills I can have. 1HB, Piercing, 2HB and H2H (although that doesn't need a weapon). Yes, I'm an Enchanter. So, what? I like to keep my weapons skills capped. Just because. I'd love to have a 2HBlunt that I can bandolier and build up skills as I chase those slow-moving fleeing mobs. There is a sense of accomplishment in having maxed skills. That's why I have 300 in 8 tradeskills.
Instead of insisting that there will be no weapons for knights because you personally don't like the idea, why not simply let them cover all bases in weapon types, and make the ones you like more useful? If you don't like knights with 1HBlunts, or 2HBlunts or whatever, then simply don't make those weapons you like as useful or as desireable. Heck, even overlap them if you want. Make the ones you don't care to see in Knights' hands usable by more than one melee class and without the beneficial procs, focus, etc. No law says that 2HBlunts need to be class specific. In fact, there's not a single earthly reason that you can't create a 2HBlunt usable by as many classes that are permitted to use one. (I think that's all of them, but I'm not sure.) You can create something with appropriate stats, but use the best focus/procs on the weapons you think are best on Knights.
Besides, this is the what the customer base is telling you they want. That is the most important factor in any business. The biases of the employees are a distant last place.
check my wordings.
I said "plans" No-where were there absolutes.
And if people want them "just for the skill" then there are non-knight specific weapons knights can use to gain skill... they are less desirable for knights because they are too fast and low damage but they are there.
I'd rather have something that isn't a huge compromise in stats.
Dev-Ngreth wrote:
Too many weapons dilutes the drop tables, and starts to make more people angry.
Oh, I'm checking your words very carefully...and your argument is severely wanting. I'm actually amazed you let yourself get away with that statement.
Drops are not the only way to acquire weapons. You can create a myriad of weapons, enough to satisfy everyone's cravings for every weapon prototype for each class without diluting the drop tables. There are merchants that sell them with the plethora of alternate currencies that we now have in the game. (Perhaps you should consider recycling some of those currencies? Or is there a reason that Radiant Crystals should only be used on DoN merchants?)
There's also tradeskills...cultured items, for instance, could include various weapon prototypes.
And there is also questing for them. You could create weapons prototypes quests. I'd do them. What's so wrong with having a 2HBlunt, for instance, as the reward of a quest that every class that can use a 2HBlunt may do?
It doesn't even require thinking outside the box. It merely requires using precedent for the means to acquire weapons that have been used for years. "Diluting the drop tables?" Sorry, that's a cop-out. I just glibly rattled off three alternative solutions to creating suitable weapons prototypes without diluting the drop tables.
For that matter, you could even create weapons that result from a combination of these methods.
And finally, there is a precedent in place for making something that drops normally into something else more desireable. For instance, in SoF the Glossy Silk Wristwrap (which has Chromatic focus) was not a normal drop. So, to punish those uppity Enchanters who dare to think that their spells deserve focus the same as all other casters - pure, priest, Bard and hybrid - get, we had to buy, at no small expense, an item that would turn our Glossy Silk Wristband into the wristwrap, so we could have Chromatic focus. Some nerve those Enchanters have, daring to think that their Chromatic based spells should have focus! Ugh!
Kidding aside, there's no earthly reason you can't do the same to a weapon.
As for the complications of designing new weapons, the Merchants in TBS and in SoF collectively have the prototypes to accommodate the various classes. All you need do is pump up the stats to appropriate levels, put them on a new merchant and you're done.
You now have four alternatives to giving prototypes to the classes that want one, all without diluting the drop tables. Your move.
yes. But we don't want to get to the point where all you need to do is get one drop, over and over, and turn it into whatever item you want. And the ideas for that keep leading towards that. Yes, I am exaggerating... but it is the extreme of what is being suggested.
Yes Point merchants will sometimes solve that.
But it all is what the content leads towards.
The current content leads towards drops, not point merchants, and outside of visible armor, we do not want to keep more and more going towards getting a few items the leads to lots of other items. More and more that leads to content being consumed in a very short time. If you are guaranteed to get what you need for equipment in 22 kills... that leads to very quickly consumed content. Since this expansion leads to drops, we are balancing the variety with the availability of drop points. These drop points can be NPC, quests, missions, global loot.
Even the "universal" armor drops are a compromise to keep the drop tables from getting too dilute.
More... (http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/posts/list.m?topic_id=154749&post_id=2273698#2273698)